[Sumaleth]

Actually, Vampire: The Masquerade had a multiplayer game mode that sounds a lot like what you describe there. One player was deemed the game master and they were free (within the limits of the game in this case) to lead the players through their story.

Personally, as a player, I don't enjoy games with RPG/Sim elements. But there seems to be a lot of people who get into those genres.

[jjacob]

I haven't heard anyone about Deus Ex in this thread, weird..

Deus Ex would be a perfect "platform" (engine really) for developing amature adventure mods. We could use the existing "cast" of 3d models and just add new enviroments, NPCs, people, conversations, goals, missions, choices (yes, there are choices affecting the game plot) whatever. I guess I'm just dreaming but that doesn't mean Deus Ex isn't worth looking at. The game was made a FPS/RPG/Adventure but it's inventory system, NPC interaction and story-telling (I mean the way they made several storylines/outcomes, endings) is almost perfectly suitable for an adventure game!
for more info:
http://www.planetdeusex.com/dx1/info/features/

There is also a sequel, which is also brilliant, but I'll stick with part 1 for this thread.

ahhh just call me crazy dellusional

[Erkki]

Originally Posted by jjacob

Deus Ex would be a perfect "platform" (engine really) for developing amature adventure mods.

I agree, somewhat. And actually, I am currently working with Grayos on something along these lines. It's not a mod set in the Deus Ex universe, but a completely separate (pure) adventure game. We are changing the games interface and gameplay a lot in order do this. I'd rather not comment any more at the moment.

I don't think there's a better way than a Deus Ex mod to make a 3D amateur adventure currently, but the UnrealScript part of Deus Ex is actually quite poorly coded and not very friendly to modifiers. Nothing too hard or impossible, though.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by Erkki

I agree, somewhat. And actually, I am currently working with Grayos on something along these lines. It's not a mod set in the Deus Ex universe, but a completely separate (pure) adventure game. We are changing the games interface and gameplay a lot in order do this. I'd rather not comment any more at the moment.

I don't think there's a better way than a Deus Ex mod to make a 3D amateur adventure currently, but the UnrealScript part of Deus Ex is actually quite poorly coded and not very friendly to modifiers. Nothing too hard or impossible, though.

Great! exactly what I drooled of

Yeah I wrote a more extensive post with more arguments but when i pressed submit it said "session expired" hehe so that went out the window.

Wow but could you give us some info perhaps a little story/setting scoop?

Will you modify it to be 3rd person (fixed camera or moving camera) like BS3? that would be cool actually, but you'd have to change the control interface so much, damn..

[Cellardoor]

Originally Posted by Sumaleth

Actually, Vampire: The Masquerade had a multiplayer game mode that sounds a lot like what you describe there. One player was deemed the game master and they were free (within the limits of the game in this case) to lead the players through their story.

Yeah, but it still has to be within the limits of the game. Me and my fellow PCs have made some pretty grand achievements in our careers as D&D players... Founded cities that became of major importance to the country's trade and political strength, used magical devices that caused large parts of polar ice to melt, creating massive floods in some parts of the world...

You simply can't put stuff like that in a computer game. When I think about it, table top RPGs are truly the ultimate form of Adventure games, if played correctly.

[Erkki]

Originally Posted by jjacob

Wow but could you give us some info perhaps a little story/setting scoop?

Not yet. But we'll make an official announcement in the Underground forums when we have something concrete to show. Right now most of the coding that I've done is related to changing the interface.

Originally Posted by jjacob

Will you modify it to be 3rd person (fixed camera or moving camera) like BS3? that would be cool actually, but you'd have to change the control interface so much, damn..

I have thought about making the 3rd person behind the character perspective available, but most likely it will be 1st person, possibly with a not fully supported option to switch to 3rd person.
I've also thought of a fixed camera perspective (maybe with a point & click interface even), but most likely this will not happen. I'd like to experiment with these possibilities within the Deus Ex engine though.

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by jjacob

Wow but could you give us some info perhaps a little story/setting scoop?

Erkki's teamed up with a talentless hack. That's the biggest scoop you'll get from me.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by Garyos

Erkki's teamed up with a talentless hack. That's the biggest scoop you'll get from me.

Well if your draw some inspiration from beyond good & evil it'll be fine
That was one good game, damn when is the sequel coming?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Bastich

I always thought it would be very educational and interesting to make an AG in which the characters you play are all disabled. I think it would very good for people to see how things are from the perspective of such people and the daily difficulties they face. I mean, what is an ordinary action for most people, is a daily puzzle for someone with a disability. I think it would very healthy for people to have to think through the same types of situations they encounter, not to mention that the puzzles would be much more interesting and creative than those we normally see because of the physical limitations.

I think this is a fabulous idea, but one that should be realized with extreme care so as not to be miscontrued as either exploitative or patronizing. As 'edutainment' it could certainly teach us to be empathetic, but as straightforward entertainment you'll have to conceive it accordingly.

Have you seen these two movies: Wait Until Dark, and Blink? Both are fairly good, despite their melodramatic leanings. I'm more inclined to recommend Wait Until Dark (which earned Audrey Hepburn an Oscar nomination, btw), but both movies present a very strong, intelligent, highly independent, and brave character who transcends her physical disability to save her life.

An adventure game in the form of a dramatic thriller where you play as an endangered blind character would be the most bleeding edge innovative experience for any game genre. I'd especially love the idea in Blink of witnessing a very pivotal event, only to have it register visually in your memory minutes or even hours later in game time. That premise in itself could inspire some pretty evil puzzle designs involving memory and cognitive dissonance. In the game you 'witness' an event through sound only, but sometime later it actually manifests itself visually. This kind of game would require a leap of imaginativeness and creativity in terms of sound design. As far as graphics, distorted images and abstractions in addition to a blank screen would be expected. The game could also take advantage of force feedback technology. This game would be unlike any other game in history.

It might also engender some compassion for their plight.

Plight? I hardly think they would be grateful to you for describing their life as such, considering how many thousands of them we've seen living their lives as fiercely independent individuals - crossing busy streets with seeing eye dogs, getting on buses and trains by themselves in their wheelchairs, carrying on conversations in sign language.

[Bastich]

Originally Posted by Intrepid

I think this is a fabulous idea, but one that should be realized with extreme care so as not to be misconstrued as either exploitative or patronizing. As 'edutainment' it could certainly teach us to be empathetic, but as straightforward entertainment you'll have to conceive it accordingly.

I agree, but you will always offend someone no matter what you do. It is part of the risk.

Originally Posted by Intrepid

Have you seen these two movies: Wait Until Dark, and Blink? Both are fairly good, despite their melodramatic leanings. I'm more inclined to recommend Wait Until Dark (which earned Audrey Hepburn an Oscar nomination, btw), but both movies present a very strong, intelligent, highly independent, and brave character who transcends her physical disability to save her life.

There are other movies to do so as well. It was part of my inspiration for the idea. You can find other examples of the use of disability as a plot device in Fritz Lang's M (1931), Hitchcock's Rear Window and many, many more.

Originally Posted by Intrepid

An adventure game in the form of a dramatic thriller where you play as an endangered blind character would be the most bleeding edge innovative experience for any game genre. I'd especially love the idea in Blink of witnessing a very pivotal event, only to have it register visually in your memory minutes or even hours later in game time. That premise in itself could inspire some pretty evil puzzle designs involving memory and cognitive dissonance. In the game you 'witness' an event through sound only, but sometime later it actually manifests itself visually. This kind of game would require a leap of imaginativeness and creativity in terms of sound design. As far as graphics, distorted images and abstractions in addition to a blank screen would be expected. The game could also take advantage of force feedback technology. This game would be unlike any other game in history.

You are definitely touching on some of my ideas there.

Originally Posted by Intrepid

Plight? I hardly think they would be grateful to you for describing their life as such, considering how many thousands of them we've seen living their lives as fiercely independent individuals - crossing busy streets with seeing eye dogs, getting on buses and trains by themselves in their wheelchairs, carrying on conversations in sign language.

And here is where you have terribly disappointed me. After having exchanged several PMs over this very issue, it is rather suspect of you to take such an interpretation of my words when you know damn well what I meant. You are obviously trying to start something. Do you miss our aggressive intercourse that much that you would stoop to this to rile me up? I am not biting.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Bastich

And here is where you have terribly disappointed me. After having exchanged several PMs over this very issue, it is rather suspect of you to take such an interpretation of my words when you know damn well what I meant. You are obviously trying to start something. Do you miss our aggressive intercourse that much that you would stoop to this to rile me up? I am not biting.

Hey, don't be so sensitive. This is simply my opinion, any other person would also be entitled to opine whether or not they agree with you. Just ask anyone in these forums. Do you really think I'm provoking anything? This is exactly how things got out of hand with that other individual (you know who) who misinterpreted my opinions and views as a personal affront and then began sending me PMs trying to irk me into apologizing when I know I did nothing wrong. Is it so wrong to express one's views? You could disagree with me on issues, but I certainly wouldn't be hurt by it. You have your views, I have mine. I respect your views, but don't take it so personally when my own contradicts yours.

On the topic, I do know a couple of disabled people, and they don't take well to others over-extending themselves just to help out; in fact, it ends up rubbing it in their faces that they are disabled. They tell me that they preferred to be treated like everyone else. I myself have a kind of physical disability, and I do not like it when people get so over-accommodating to me. Just chill and let me be myself, I tell them.

[Bastich]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Hey, don't be so sensitive. This is simply my opinion, any other person would also be entitled to opine whether or not they agree with you. Just ask anyone in these forums. Do you really think I'm provoking anything?

I think if you go back and read my last few sentences, you will notice that they have a double meaning that was meant to be rather humorous. I was laughing when I posted it. As usual, I forgot the smiley that would have clued you in. Sorry.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Oh god, Bastich. ..... better I pm you....

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Somewhere in this museum resides a clue pointing to
a recent fatal terrorist attack. Your PDA is vital in managing
collected info. Be careful, though, as your agency may be
monitoring your moves.

I just listened to an NPR audio story about a newly formed "....organization...designed to centralize intelligence from the CIA, FBI and Office of Homeland Security", and I thought, why not an adventure game where you play a new CIA inductee who adventiously discovers a conspiratorial coverup in the agency that may have had something to do with a recent terrorist sabotage that killed hundreds of lives?

You first choose to be either a male or female agent, and because of your rookie status (you've only been there about a year) you have limited access to places and information within the agency. The game would begin with you making the usual rounds expected of you, but then soon after you stumble on something suspicious - perhaps an email that should have been deleted, a file not for your eyes, or some other clue that something funny is going on. You eventually find out what the beef is and decide to become a whistle blower, the public must be made aware.

The game and story will involve a lot of researching (NOT the boring, standard 'place-bubble-gum-wrapper-on-feather-with-castor-oil' puzzle), computer hacking, stealing key cards, finding locations, disguising yourself to avoid detection, looking for clues in locations beyond headquarters, and heavy interaction with NPCs. It's absolutely vital no one else in the agency (save for a couple of close confidantes) find out what you're up to. Needless to say, the more you investigate, the more suspicious certain officials will become, thus putting your professional status - and your life - in danger. Your curiosity will take you to other locales - an apartment complex where one of the terrorist suspects lived, a corporate office high up a downtown skyscraper, an exclusive cocktail party hosting the government elite, an art museum, a wooded area outside the city, a medical research center, and the site of the terrorist attack.

Gameplaywise, there are no violence and action sequences at all (except in cutscenes). The A.I. will approach the quality of that upcoming game Façade, in that NPCs will always have their own agenda and can scrutinize you as much as you them. Be very careful, they might get suspicious (especially within CIA headquarters), so your inquiries have to be veiled and indirect. There would be bona fide puzzles, like decrypting codes or using items in creative, unconventional ways. Your most valuable tool throughout is your PDA, which manages all the information you collect and can be hooked up to computers to access and gather classified data. It is possible to use a bit of strategy to throw suspicious people off your tracks, either through 'fuzzing up' your electronic activities or 'framing' colleagues by dropping incriminating clues on them.

Graphics-wise, I'd probably use a powerful engine, say, the Unreal or LithTech Jupiter engine. It would be in 3rd person with optional 1st person view. The visual style would approach relatively realistic levels - Silent Hill 3 or Splinter Cell. It's possible to play the game either in point-&-click or direct control.

It would play just like a suspense thriller movie, similar in tone to, say, director Roger Donaldson's No Way Out or Alfred Hitchcock's Torn Curtain.

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by Bastich

I actually like that idea. If you could create a custom character in the beginning based on book skills and such like you stated above and didn't develop them but are stuck with them throughout the game, you could vary the game-play without becoming an RPG. The essence would still be on the adventure and not on the stats...

Maniac Mansion did this, in a way. The problem was that you really had no idea of the differences between each character when you chose your team. I would end up just choosing characters that I thought looked cool.

[ConcreteRancor]

As far as multiplayer adventure games go, I could imagine something like Majestic, where you are literally the main character, but working with other people on assigned "teams" to solve the mysteries that the game would throw at you.
In order to avoid being paired up with assholes, you could get a group of friends together who all owned the game and you could specify that you wanted them as your team members. Teams could be any size, but of course the more people you have, the less each person gets to do. I could see teams of three to five people being ideal.
For those who don't remember it, (not hard to forget it, because it had such bad sales that it was shut down within a month,) Majestic was a game that actually contacted you through e-mail, web addresses, instant messenger, fax, even phone if you wanted it to, and gave you clues to solving conspiratorial plotlines. Supposedly, when you solved one, you could ask for another. Of course there was a monthy fee, though, which is probably what hurt sales the most. Who wants to pay that much to play by themselves?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Thought I'd boink this thread up as a companion to this thread.

[Squinky]

Teeheehee... boink...

I'll read through this and the other thread for the next little while, and post some impressions. It'll provide me with quality entertainment for the rest of the evening, at least in between getting stuck in Zack & Wiki...

[Davies]

I do agree with the sentiment that not all RPGs have to be based around fighting. As Cellardoor pointed out, anyone who knows tabletop role-playing also knows that there are many types of adventuring.

In either tabletop or computer RPGs, it's quick and easy to stuff a dungeon full of monsters and send the hero(es) to kill them. It takes a lot more thought to come up with an adventure that doesn't emphasise combat -- or even one that actively discourages or punishes aggression -- but it can be done. And usually these turn out to be much more interesting, absorbing, and memorable stories.

I'm thinking of the classic D&D adventure "Beyond the Crystal Cave". It starts out with a bit of basic hack-and-slash to get the players into an enchanted garden. But once they're in the garden, violence will only lead to trouble. The players have to figure out what's going on and what they have to do about it without any overt aggression.

[Thesaya]

Someone mentioned Vampire the masquerade (presuming it's Bloodlines were talking 'bout), talking bout that and talking bout not-so-combat-based games, you can go through most of that game with minimal fighting, for example sneak past bad guys instead of killing them and stuff... Also, i LARP Vampire, and in that form, it is actually quite like an adventure game, finding mystical pieces of evidence, trying to et information out of people...